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professional-teenager:

ASOIAF Theory Time: Davos and Storm’s End in The Winds of Winter

I know that most of you are already formulating snarky responses to the title, but hear me out.

We know that in The Winds of Winter, Davos will arrive in Skagos to retrieve Rickon Stark and return him to Winterfell. That was the cliffhanger during A Dance with Dragons, and as there is still a considerable amount of the book left after Davos’ last chapter, it’s easy to assume that his TWOW storyline…

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____-_Don’t fool yourselves, people; the whole point and perfect irony of the queen prophecy is that it’s someone Cersei would never ever consider so therefore it’s not Sansa, it’s not even Sansa’s sister, it’s not Margaery, it’s not Arianne — the queen is Dany, bet on it.

nobodysuspectsthebutterfly [x]

"Cersei’s fears make her act wildly, irrationally, attacking everyone she suspects of working against her, making enemies of potential allies and alienating the allies she has. In the end, Dany (who Cersei will never see coming) will just walk in and have to ‘take’ very little at all." [x]

"(And the irony in the valonqar prophecy is that Cersei is sure it’s Tyrion but it’s actually Jaime. No, it’s not Sandor/Arya/Tommen/Rickon. Irony, not randomness.)

"(And please don’t go “but Dany and Jaime are so obvious!” Yeah well so’s R+L=J.)" [x]

(via joannalannister)

hey so i was just looking at the asoiaf theory post.... and you said you don't like the cleganebowl one, but i'm just wondering, do you think sandor is dead? i have a hard time believing that he is. but is that one of the reasons you don't think that'll happen?

faramircaptainofgondor:

To the people who don’t know what “Cleganebowl” theory is: It’s basically the theory that suggests that Sandor will be the champion of the Faith and defeat Robert Strong (zombified!Gregor Clegane) at Cersei’s trial. Some even suggest that Sandor is “the valonqar” (the little brother) who will bring Cersei’s end by killing Ser Robert.

It’s such a weak theory and so ridiculously popular that I can’t…

First of all, no, I don’t think Sandor Clegane is dead. I’m 99.9% sure that he’s the gravedigger that Brienne saw at the Quiet Isle. But just because he’s alive and is associated with the people of the Faith at the moment doesn’t mean he’s going to take up arms, gallop to King’s Landing and become the shining champion of the Faith.

Most people are conveniently forgetting that he physically can’t.

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sparklehorsettes:

I was reading donewithwoodenteeth 's meta about how Arya is not going to become a faceless man and it got me thinking about one of my favourite characters, Bran, and the cringe worthy perception that he is going to become a ‘tree’. Not going to rule, not going to champion the humans against the others, he’s going to be a tree. Despite him, being you know, the first character ever created in ASOIAF and as each book goes along, we see him advance his skills and knowledge in magic and history.

An interpretation myself and many others share is that ASOIAF is blowing up the status quo. In the first chapter of AGOT, Bran gets a direwolf and in the last chapter, Dany’s dragons hatch and come to life. Magic is coming back into the world. The state of which Bloodraven is in represents the status quo. Even at the start of ASOIAF, he still has lived ‘past his mortal span’ and ‘most of him has gone into the tree’. Bran can’t be Bloodraven 2.0 because he is around 9-10 years old, he is not dying. Bryndyn Rivers did live a full life: Hand Of The King, and lord commander of the Night’s Watch. Who is to say that Bran won’t? Cause he is a cripple? Well, Doran Martell comes to mind. Bran clearly doesn’t want to be in the cave, and him taking over Bloodraven’s role doesn’t change a single thing in the overall narrative of ASOIAF. It makes no sense for Bran to just disappear from the narrative.

Bran can get away from the cave, he can return south. Does him being a cripple mean that it’s more difficult? Yes. That doesn’t mean it’s not impossible. The cave could be attacked.

Onto Melisandre’s vision in ADWD

A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? She thought, for just a moment … but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolfs face threw back his head and howled.

We can discuss the reliability of Mel’s visions, yet both Bran and Bloodraven appeared. It’s not the current / future replacement, they are together side by side, presumably, working together in a role regarding the Others. Whether or not they are the champions, well, it’s really hard to say because there is still alot we do not know about them and beyond. It also begs the question: Why does Bloodraven need Bran? Why does he need to teach someone greendreams and other skills regarding magic? I mean, what’s the point of having all of this power, if you don’t use it for change?

I do strongly believe that Bran can advance his powers outside the cave- between AGOT and before he reached the cave, he managed to have sharp skills regarding warging and a strong connection with Summer.    His sibling, Arya, also proves this- she wargs into Nymeria, whether she’s sleeping on dirt or in the House Of Black And White, she still has dreams. Powers are not limited to location.

Bran, like his siblings, wants to see his family again. I don’t think he’ll settle for mere visions. There is also the incredibly high possibility that the cave will be annihilated and destroyed, with the upcoming war going on.

I’d also like to mention how ableist the ‘bran is becoming a tree hurr hurr’ comments are. Alot of Bran’s insecurites regarding him being the cave do regard him being a cripple. There are countless metas and writings that rule out Bran’s possibility of being a ruler because he is a cripple and can’t go into war. It may seem funny, yet it is quite offensive and dismissive.

Bran’s important, he will have a massive impact that like all other POVs- his endgame will be different to what we expected. The status quo is dying out and the tradition of residing in a cave is definately one of them

What are your thoughts on the Shadow Lands in ASOIAF? Like what do you think it's the exactly this shadow and do you think there is any correlation with the The Others/The North, considering that R'hllor's " written gospel" is located in Asshai by the shadow (and maybe originated from there too)?
Anonymous

faramircaptainofgondor:

I’m so, so, so curious about Asshai and the Shadow Lands. It’s a pity that GRRM said we would be seeing Asshai ‘only in flashbacks, if at all' and I assume it's the same for the Shadow Lands Beyond Asshai.

However, I don’t think there’s necessarily a ‘correlation’ between the Shadow Lands and the Others/Long Night. I reckon the Others truly do come from the lands Beyond the Wall, and perhaps the people of Asshai were perhaps simply cleverer than Southron Westerosi to preserve such legends.

When Magister Illyrio gifts Daenerys with three dragon eggs, Daenerys recalls that first dragons came from the East, from the Shadow Lands Beyond Asshai. However, the Valyrians (the first civilisation to tame dragons that we know of) found them in their own continent, nesting in their volcanos. If dragons truly came from the Shadow Lands (which is far from certain, given the ASOIAF world’s love of legends and tales) they must have migrated West a long time ago.

I can make no certain claims about the origin of dragons, except that they came to Westeros from the East. It may have been Valyria, or Shadow Lands, or somewhere in between, I cannot say… we do not have enough textual evidence to state any information as facts.

However, I am convinced that anything about the Others/the Long Night comes from Westeros. This is my belief unless GRRM tells me otherwise. Bran’s comatose-dream-vision tells us as much.

Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him. And he looked past the Wall, past endless forests cloaked in snow, past the frozen shore and the great blue-white rivers of ice and the dead plains where nothing grew or lived. North and north and north he looked, to the curtain of light at the end of the world, and then beyond that curtain. He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned on his cheeks.  

I’m pretty sure the Others come from the unmapped Lands of Always Winter, perhaps from behind ‘the curtain of light.’ 

As I said before, I think that the people of Asshai were just more diligent about recording these legends of the Long Night, given how deity is of fire and the Others are of ice.

But that doesn’t necessarily mean that the Shadow Lands and Asshai aren’t fascinating. And I truly hope that GRRM reveals more about them outside the series. (Perhaps in AWOIAF? One can only hope.) I just reckon that when we’re talking about the Others/the Long Night, the origins belong to the North.

radiowesteros:

It seems almost everything about Melisandre’s appearance can be attributed to either Shiera Seastar or Bloodraven – two characters known to have had a sexual relationship. We will see that skin, eyes, height, figure, face, breasts, beauty, elegance, even apparel have startling similarities, as well as aspects of personality and aptitude (& lots more). Here’s Shiera + Bloodraven = Mel, which yolkboy originally posted at Westeros.org last year. 

Here’s the description GRRM gave us of Shiera…

"She was the greatest beauty(1) of her age, a slender(2)  and  elegant(3) woman, slim of waist(4) and full of breast(5);… She had a heart-shaped face(6); full lips, and her mismatched eyes were strangely large and full of mischief”

Compared with Cressen’s description of Mel from Clash…

"Slender(2) she was, graceful(3), taller than most knights, with full breasts(5) and narrow waist(4) and a heart-shaped face(6). Men’s eyes that once found her did not quickly look away, not even a maester’s eyes. Many called her beautiful(1).”

The similarities are undeniable here… and the heart-shaped face is interesting. A heart-shaped face is a rare trait, only attributed to two other characters outside of Mel and Shiera, and one of those is related to Shiera. (Mel’s possible glamour is considered further on).

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nobodysuspectsthebutterfly:

Oh, don’t worry about that! The Others don’t have the Horn of Joramun — Sam does.
It was the old cracked horn he and Jon found with the cache of dragonglass knives and arrowheads, on the Fist of the First Men. And yes, despite the fact that Sam sold everything except the clothes on his back to the Summer Islanders to get passage to Oldtown, he still has it with him — they didn’t want it, as it didn’t blow and was basically a piece of junk, and so Sam hung onto it as a keepsake.
But I suppose I should qualify that “don’t worry” thing. It’s a literary certainty that the Wall is coming down before the end of the series. (You don’t introduce a huge legendary ice wall, the only thing saving humanity from the invasion of the ice zombies, without planning on eventually destroying it.) And I don’t know how or when the Horn will be repaired, or who will realize exactly what it is, or how it’s getting north again. But considering the fact that the Faceless Man — formerly known as the Alchemist, formerly known as Jaqen H’ghar, currently known as the novice Pate — is at the Citadel along with Sam, I do have my suspicions.
And paranoia is an occupational hazard with these books. :)
(For more on the Horn of Joramun, please see this tag.)

nobodysuspectsthebutterfly:

Oh, don’t worry about that! The Others don’t have the Horn of Joramun — Sam does.

It was the old cracked horn he and Jon found with the cache of dragonglass knives and arrowheads, on the Fist of the First Men. And yes, despite the fact that Sam sold everything except the clothes on his back to the Summer Islanders to get passage to Oldtown, he still has it with him — they didn’t want it, as it didn’t blow and was basically a piece of junk, and so Sam hung onto it as a keepsake.

But I suppose I should qualify that “don’t worry” thing. It’s a literary certainty that the Wall is coming down before the end of the series. (You don’t introduce a huge legendary ice wall, the only thing saving humanity from the invasion of the ice zombies, without planning on eventually destroying it.) And I don’t know how or when the Horn will be repaired, or who will realize exactly what it is, or how it’s getting north again. But considering the fact that the Faceless Man — formerly known as the Alchemist, formerly known as Jaqen H’ghar, currently known as the novice Pate — is at the Citadel along with Sam, I do have my suspicions.

And paranoia is an occupational hazard with these books. :)

(For more on the Horn of Joramun, please see this tag.)

joannalannister:

Much as I admire Tolkien, and I do admire Tolkien — he’s been a huge influence on me, and his Lord of the Rings is the mountain that leans over every other fantasy written since and shaped all of modern fantasy — there are things about it, the whole concept of the Dark Lord, and good guys battling bad guys, Good versus Evil, while brilliantly handled in Tolkien, in the hands of many Tolkien successors, it has become kind of a cartoon. We don’t need any more Dark Lords, we don’t need any more, ‘Here are the good guys, they’re in white, there are the bad guys, they’re in black. And also, they’re really ugly, the bad guys. **George R. R. Martin, Assignment X Interview, 2011

There are a lot of things I think are wrong with this theory:

  • Daenerys Targaryen is not evil. Daenerys often makes mistakes, but that doesn’t make her evil. She’s one of the characters who has a great love for humanity. Her attempts to end slavery in various cities, to have people be seen as people and not objects, humanizing so many in Martin’s world, has always made me see her as one of the main protagonists of ASOIAF. “The threat of the Targaryens” is bullshit.
  • lol I don’t think that Stannis is going to become the Night’s King
  • The wildlings have lived beyond the Wall for hundreds of years, their living beyond the Wall is not the cause of the Others waking up
  • The Others woke up well before the dragons were born again into the world, so the direction of causality assumed by the theory is wrong
  • too much other ridiculous crack for me to spend time picking apart

But I thought this was very interesting:

We know that there has already been a peace between human and inhuman/supernatural beings in Westeros. The First Men and the Children came to terms and agreed to a peace treaty (which was later broken by the Andal invaders)

I propose that the Last Hero was not a conqueror, but a diplomat. An agreement was reached between Men and the Others. It was the Others themselves that raised the magical wall of ice, not to seal themselves off but to mark their territory and protect themselves from a dangerous source of fire magic to the south of their domain. […] The Others, then, fulfilled their side of the agreement. They went away and left Men alone. Men, unfortunately, did not keep up their end of the bargain. […]  

If I’m right, the Others are not so different from Men, and the greater conflict not so different from the smaller one. Pacts were made, backstabbing and broken oaths occurred, and now there’s war.

I think Bran’s political training from ACOK could be very important to his future, and I tend to think that the War for the Dawn is where it will be used. (I think of Bran as the key figure in the War for the Dawn.)

Much as I admire Tolkien, and I do admire Tolkien — he’s been a huge influence on me, and his Lord of the Rings is the mountain that leans over every other fantasy written since and shaped all of modern fantasy — there are things about it, the whole concept of the Dark Lord, and good guys battling bad guys, Good versus Evil, while brilliantly handled in Tolkien, in the hands of many Tolkien successors, it has become kind of a cartoon. We don’t need any more Dark Lords, we don’t need any more, ‘Here are the good guys, they’re in white, there are the bad guys, they’re in black. And also, they’re really ugly, the bad guys. **George R. R. Martin, Assignment X Interview, 2011

valarmorghulisandstuff asked:

what is (f) or fAegon? I’ve googled but I have no idea what it means :(

"(F)Aegon" refers to the theory that Young Griff, the young man that Tyrion encountered in A Dance With Dragons and was revealed to be Aegon Targaryen, Rhaegar’s son who was supposedly killed by Gregor Clegane but actually switched with another baby… is a fake, not really Aegon, but someone else who’s been raised to believe he’s Aegon. Jon Connington (who helped raise the boy) is unaware of the deception, and possibly Haldon Halfmaester and Septa Lemore are unaware too. The only ones who know the truth are Illyrio and Varys, and theories hold that “Aegon” is actually Illyrio’s son, a Blackfyre, or both. See our tag for more.

Anyway, “fake Aegon” is often shortened to (f)Aegon or FAegon. I don’t use the term myself (I prefer “Aegon”) but lots of other people do.

— your mod nobodysuspectsthebutterfly